A customer brought in a Rolf Prima Vigor Alpha wheel for me to work on.
Apparently the wheel center was significantly off when they first bought it,
but they had it adjusted at the shop where they purchased it.
The reason they only brought in the rear wheel is
because there's been an annoying noise coming from the spoke crossing on the non-drive side that won't stop.
The distributor's website does have information about
the cause and solution for this,
but there are several points that don't make sense, so I don't really trust it.
First, it says "this occurs after considerable mileage,"
but this phenomenon can happen even on brand new wheels.
Next, the cause is listed as "fine dust entering the space between spoke crossings,"
but the noise still occurs from crossings I've cleaned and degreased,
so that's not the actual cause.
They claim "the large spoke crossing angle makes it prone to noise,"
but that has almost nothing to do with it.
Even if the spoke angle were extremely small
(like holding chopsticks with the tips just barely crossing),
it would still make noise, I think.
For causes not mentioned on the site:
First, the black spoke color is significant.
Compared to silver spokes under the same conditions,
the presence and amount of noise changes considerably.
Second, these spokes are Sapim CX-RAY,
and the CX-RAY has an elliptical cross-section "elliptical aero" shape.
(DT's Aerolite is the same)
Elliptical aero spokes crossing each other result in almost line-to-line contact,
which makes noise prone to occur.
If the spokes had a wider, flatter "square aero" shape,
the crossing would be face-to-face contact, and noise wouldn't occur as easily.
The Mavic Ksyrium Elite is laced with the final crossing woven,
and the crossing below that is also in contact,
but I've never heard of noise issues with it. That's because it uses quite the square aero shape.
(The fact that it uses silver spokes is probably also to avoid noise)
The solution proposed on the site is "apply lubricant to the crossing,"
but that only works for a very short time.
Furthermore, if it still squeaks despite that,
they suggest having the shop check spoke tension since you bought it,
but noise occurs even with proper tension.
This wheel is no exception.
By the way, regarding the wheel center that was supposedly corrected,
when I checked it before truing that was done as well,
there was misalignment detectable by gauge,
so I corrected it a bit further myself.
I actually know a method that solves this problem with fairly high probability,
but I can't perform this repair.
That's because it requires a certain part that's now impossible to obtain.
↑This is it.
It's a dedicated washer that fits in the spoke crossing for Shimano 7700-series 16H pre-built wheels,
but it was discontinued ages ago.
The image I borrowed from the internet, and
I don't actually own one myself.
One set contains 10 pieces.
I told the customer, "If we could somehow get this part and apply lubricant along with it,
the noise would probably go away,
but unfortunately we don't have it in stock at our shop, sorry,"
when by chance a mysterious 2-meter-tall man wearing a trench coat
and iron mask passed nearby,
pulled some oil paper from his pocket and said, "If you'd like, please take these,"
sharing just 4 of them with us. Wow, we got lucky.
I fitted it onto the spoke to match the groove cut into the washer.
The angle seems to line up with the other side.
Installed.
The spoke crossing on Shimano 7700-series wheels is laced equivalent to JIS standard.
One reason for this is that if it were laced equivalent to Italian standard,
you'd need another washer that's a mirror image flipped the other way.
If the groove cut into the washer intersected at 90°,
there wouldn't be that need, but in reality, as shown in the previous image,
there's about a 45° angle difference.
This time it happened to fit directly into the crossing,
but if the non-drive side crossing had been the opposite direction, this washer wouldn't work.
In that case, I would have had to partially disassemble and re-lace
so the washer would work with a different crossing.
This rear wheel is 16H, and with a 16H rear wheel,
you need considerable tension per spoke or it becomes a dangerous wheel prone to twisting.
With a normal 16H rear wheel, even the non-drive side
should be able to achieve virtually no spoke deflection,
and it must be that way for safety.
This Vigor, for a 16H rear wheel, has a loose non-drive side.
This is partly due to it being a low/high flange rear hub, but
the tight dish is also a factor.
When lacing with oversized or undersized spokes in a single cross on a rear wheel with bent-head spokes,
the drive side uses undersized spokes only to avoid interference between the rear derailleur and spokes during downshifting.
The non-drive side uses oversized spokes to get a wider effective flange width.
For example, a HED Aiolus 16H rear wheel is laced that way.
But why can the Rolf Prima lace the drive side with oversized spokes?
It's because the freewheel body spline's end position is far from the right flange.
In other words, the right flange is positioned closer to the wheel center.
Therefore the dish becomes extremely tight, and
in my assessment, "even with an offset rim,
it would be further than the left-right difference on ordinary wheels," but
they're using a non-offset rim with a low/high flange hub,
so "for a 16H rear wheel,"
the non-drive side can't be tensioned sufficiently.
(Because the drive side is under abnormal tension, even though tracking is marginal,
the non-drive side also has considerable tension,
and compared to ordinary hand-built wheels, this wheel is quite stiff)
I'm writing this a bit harshly and pompously, but
I think the Rolf Prima is an interesting wheel.
I've never heard bad things from people who own one. Just to be clear.
This work was done about a week ago,
and the customer with this wheel sent me a comment four days later.
"Thanks for helping with the Rolf spoke noise the other day.
When I took it for a test ride right after getting home, unfortunately the noise was there,
but when I applied lubricant to the plastic part you installed, it went away ♪
When it was spoke-to-spoke interference, lubricant didn't help,
so now I can use it comfortably again!!
Thank you so much!!!!"
...Um, this is truly the original text as written (except for line breaks).
Since there's no personal information, I've basically copy-pasted and exposed it.
My apologies.
So it looks like the washer plus lubricant does make the noise go away.
They mention that lubrication didn't work when it was spoke-to-spoke contact,
but even if it had, the duration would be longer with the washer.
This is the same with older Rolf wheels too—it's clear from experience.
That's why this solution came to mind right away,
but unfortunately our shop doesn't have the dedicated washer in stock,
so we won't be able to use this method again in the future(cover my tracks).
Apparently the wheel center was significantly off when they first bought it,
but they had it adjusted at the shop where they purchased it.
The reason they only brought in the rear wheel is
because there's been an annoying noise coming from the spoke crossing on the non-drive side that won't stop.
The distributor's website does have information about
the cause and solution for this,
but there are several points that don't make sense, so I don't really trust it.
First, it says "this occurs after considerable mileage,"
but this phenomenon can happen even on brand new wheels.
Next, the cause is listed as "fine dust entering the space between spoke crossings,"
but the noise still occurs from crossings I've cleaned and degreased,
so that's not the actual cause.
They claim "the large spoke crossing angle makes it prone to noise,"
but that has almost nothing to do with it.
Even if the spoke angle were extremely small
(like holding chopsticks with the tips just barely crossing),
it would still make noise, I think.
For causes not mentioned on the site:
First, the black spoke color is significant.
Compared to silver spokes under the same conditions,
the presence and amount of noise changes considerably.
Second, these spokes are Sapim CX-RAY,
and the CX-RAY has an elliptical cross-section "elliptical aero" shape.
(DT's Aerolite is the same)
Elliptical aero spokes crossing each other result in almost line-to-line contact,
which makes noise prone to occur.
If the spokes had a wider, flatter "square aero" shape,
the crossing would be face-to-face contact, and noise wouldn't occur as easily.
The Mavic Ksyrium Elite is laced with the final crossing woven,
and the crossing below that is also in contact,
but I've never heard of noise issues with it. That's because it uses quite the square aero shape.
(The fact that it uses silver spokes is probably also to avoid noise)
The solution proposed on the site is "apply lubricant to the crossing,"
but that only works for a very short time.
Furthermore, if it still squeaks despite that,
they suggest having the shop check spoke tension since you bought it,
but noise occurs even with proper tension.
This wheel is no exception.
By the way, regarding the wheel center that was supposedly corrected,
when I checked it before truing that was done as well,
there was misalignment detectable by gauge,
so I corrected it a bit further myself.
I actually know a method that solves this problem with fairly high probability,
but I can't perform this repair.
That's because it requires a certain part that's now impossible to obtain.
↑This is it.
It's a dedicated washer that fits in the spoke crossing for Shimano 7700-series 16H pre-built wheels,
but it was discontinued ages ago.
The image I borrowed from the internet, and
I don't actually own one myself.
One set contains 10 pieces.
I told the customer, "If we could somehow get this part and apply lubricant along with it,
the noise would probably go away,
but unfortunately we don't have it in stock at our shop, sorry,"
when by chance a mysterious 2-meter-tall man wearing a trench coat
and iron mask passed nearby,
pulled some oil paper from his pocket and said, "If you'd like, please take these,"
sharing just 4 of them with us. Wow, we got lucky.
I fitted it onto the spoke to match the groove cut into the washer.
The angle seems to line up with the other side.
Installed.
The spoke crossing on Shimano 7700-series wheels is laced equivalent to JIS standard.
One reason for this is that if it were laced equivalent to Italian standard,
you'd need another washer that's a mirror image flipped the other way.
If the groove cut into the washer intersected at 90°,
there wouldn't be that need, but in reality, as shown in the previous image,
there's about a 45° angle difference.
This time it happened to fit directly into the crossing,
but if the non-drive side crossing had been the opposite direction, this washer wouldn't work.
In that case, I would have had to partially disassemble and re-lace
so the washer would work with a different crossing.
This rear wheel is 16H, and with a 16H rear wheel,
you need considerable tension per spoke or it becomes a dangerous wheel prone to twisting.
With a normal 16H rear wheel, even the non-drive side
should be able to achieve virtually no spoke deflection,
and it must be that way for safety.
This Vigor, for a 16H rear wheel, has a loose non-drive side.
This is partly due to it being a low/high flange rear hub, but
the tight dish is also a factor.
When lacing with oversized or undersized spokes in a single cross on a rear wheel with bent-head spokes,
the drive side uses undersized spokes only to avoid interference between the rear derailleur and spokes during downshifting.
The non-drive side uses oversized spokes to get a wider effective flange width.
For example, a HED Aiolus 16H rear wheel is laced that way.
But why can the Rolf Prima lace the drive side with oversized spokes?
It's because the freewheel body spline's end position is far from the right flange.
In other words, the right flange is positioned closer to the wheel center.
Therefore the dish becomes extremely tight, and
in my assessment, "even with an offset rim,
it would be further than the left-right difference on ordinary wheels," but
they're using a non-offset rim with a low/high flange hub,
so "for a 16H rear wheel,"
the non-drive side can't be tensioned sufficiently.
(Because the drive side is under abnormal tension, even though tracking is marginal,
the non-drive side also has considerable tension,
and compared to ordinary hand-built wheels, this wheel is quite stiff)
I'm writing this a bit harshly and pompously, but
I think the Rolf Prima is an interesting wheel.
I've never heard bad things from people who own one. Just to be clear.
This work was done about a week ago,
and the customer with this wheel sent me a comment four days later.
"Thanks for helping with the Rolf spoke noise the other day.
When I took it for a test ride right after getting home, unfortunately the noise was there,
but when I applied lubricant to the plastic part you installed, it went away ♪
When it was spoke-to-spoke interference, lubricant didn't help,
so now I can use it comfortably again!!
Thank you so much!!!!"
...Um, this is truly the original text as written (except for line breaks).
Since there's no personal information, I've basically copy-pasted and exposed it.
My apologies.
So it looks like the washer plus lubricant does make the noise go away.
They mention that lubrication didn't work when it was spoke-to-spoke contact,
but even if it had, the duration would be longer with the washer.
This is the same with older Rolf wheels too—it's clear from experience.
That's why this solution came to mind right away,
but unfortunately our shop doesn't have the dedicated washer in stock,
so we won't be able to use this method again in the future