The distributor for DT spokes has changed.
I can no longer stop by to pick them up on my way to work on commuter bikes.
Since the product lineup and order quantities have also changed,
I'll write about those details.
The new distributor's standard stock items have been reduced to
Champion and Competition only.
To be specific:
14G Champion in silver and black,
15G Champion in silver,
14G Competition in silver and black.
The 15G Champion in black and 15G Competition,
Revolution, and Aero Lite have been discontinued.
That said, our shop rarely uses Revolution anyway, so
we're not particularly troubled by this.
You can use it without issues on old low-profile 32H or 36H rims,
but even then we usually build with CX-RAY instead.
With Aero Lite, even at the previous distributor
we only had silver and black in 4 lengths: 300, 290, 280, and 270mm.
The idea was to cut intermediate lengths with a spoke cutter,
so you could get any length from around 299mm down to 260mm on demand.
However, since CX-RAY has the same spoke gauge and cross-section profile,
and Aero Lite is more expensive with unstable supply,
we've basically never used it. So again, no real problem.
↑This is the previous distributor's order unit.
Sales were by the box, with the standard being 100 spokes per box with brass nipples included.
However, black Competition came in 72 spokes per box with black spokes but silver aluminum nipples.
Not shown on the chart, but Revolution came in 72 spokes per box for both silver and black,
both with silver aluminum nipples included.
So black Competition had the same quantity and nipple specs as Revolution.
By the way, titanium spokes—Titanium MMC (Metal Matrix Composite)—
came in boxes of just 12 spokes each.
↑I've added notes about the current distributor's order units.
The changes are: 15G Competition no longer in standard stock, black Competition nipples changed to black aluminum,
and instead of 100-spoke boxes, we now handle 10-spoke or 4-spoke units.
However, Champion 315mm is available in 500, 100, or 72-spoke units only.
Since plain spokes can be cut to any length with a spoke cutter,
buying just 315mm Champion is sufficient.
With 10-spoke or 4-spoke order units,
the unit price for 10-spoke is slightly cheaper, but barely.
By combining these, you can order exactly what you need—
for example, for a 32H front wheel: 10+10+4+4+4,
or for just 12 spokes in a half-Competition 24H wheel: 4+4+4.
From now on, any shop that says
"DT spokes can only be ordered in 100-spoke units, so even if we only use 32 spokes we have to buy 100"
is lying, so be careful.
Even otherwise, making customers buy unnecessary spokes is pretty underhanded.
If you're building wheels constantly, you'll occasionally get a dud spoke
(←make up your mind).
So ordering exactly the number you need is actually risky business.
I'm too scared to do it.
Right away, I bought silver and black Champion 315mm in 100-spoke boxes.
With the previous distributor, spokes in boxes came with nipples included,
but it seems the current distributor doesn't include them.
With the previous distributor, the longest black Champion in standard stock was oddly 266mm.
So for half-Competition builds, I'd been using Sapim black Leader spokes,
but I'm planning to switch to black half-Champion from now on.
For 14G black plain spokes specifically, Wheelsmith's SS14 (max 310mm, 50 spokes per box)
is also a pretty good spoke.
Except for bulk-order 315mm Champion,
the current distributor carries Champion/Competition in 255–303mm (1mm increments).
As I mentioned in an earlier post,
the previous distributor's shortest silver Competition was 258mm.
The previous distributor's longest Champion/Competition length was 306mm.
Competition 306mm was oddly never in stock,
so I'd usually order 305mm instead.
As an example of when 303mm isn't long enough:
For track wheels using an Araya 16B Gold rim
built 8-spoke in 36H, there's a
standard-specification 15G-based butted spoke at 305mm by Hoshi.
This is effectively the longest length needed for 700C rims,
but building ultra-low-profile 36H rims 8-spoke wouldn't happen very often, probably.
Since Competition no longer comes in 100-spoke units,
when you want 100 or 200 spokes, you'd order 10 or 20 bags of 10-spoke packs.
This is extremely annoying.
Taking them out of the bags and bundling them is tedious.
↑These are the 4 nipples that come with black Competition 4-spoke packs.
I wonder if there's any point in dividing things this finely
(okay, so it helps shops like us that only build a few wheels at a time).
Since Competition no longer comes in 100 or 72-spoke boxes,
I'll no longer have the chance to get these boxes.
You could fit 200 Competition spokes in a box (though 14G Champion would be tight),
but I've been throwing the extra boxes away.
This box gets worn over time,
so whenever I did bulk Competition orders, I'd occasionally replace the box.
This is the spoke case we use at our shop for CX-RAY.
The drawers have dividers, but
if spokes differing by 1mm or 2mm are in the same drawer,
things get messy if they somehow mix up.
For instance, spokes in 1mm increments of the same type,
I arrange them in an order like this.
I split same-length spokes of different colors left and right.
By the way, these spoke cases are
expensive to buy (and might even be discontinued)
but my mentor gave me one years ago, and I'm grateful for it.
There are spare drawers, but I might need to reserve 3 for Competition.
I use 303, 285, and 278mm most often,
plus 255mm for the shortest length—that's 4 drawers needed.
I can reliably cut 278mm from 285mm anyway,
but I still order 278mm separately because I use it so much.
Hmm, I'm torn.
Next, about nipples.
15G now only comes in brass and silver aluminum,
and colored nipples have been discontinued.
Since I rarely use 15G-based spokes
(just occasional 15G plain on small-wheel bikes),
this doesn't bother me much either.
If I really had to, I'd use Sapim nipples.
It's been about 4 years since I last saw
the "deep red" (top image) make a comeback.
DT's 100-piece nipple boxes can hold 200 pieces if you compress them.
So when buying aluminum nipples, I compress the boxes so the count is halved.
The light red (bottom image) is not old stock from our shop—
it's from this new shipment. In other words, deep red and light red are mixed in the same period.
We make sure these two colors (officially the same color according to the maker) don't mix on one wheel,
but whether the light red disappears or not is unclear.
As for DT spoke and nipple prices,
they went up slightly with the distributor change.
Our shop's prices for spokes and silver aluminum nipples are unchanged,
but we're raising the price on colored aluminum nipples.
Currently 40 yen per piece; from August 2018 onwards, 50 yen per piece.
Already-ordered wheel builds will be done at 40 yen per piece.
We apologize for any inconvenience.
By the way, the current distributor's tax-included list price is 61.5 yen per piece.
For rims, freebody, through-axle end parts,
through-axles and such,
the current distributor has better standard stock.
Though I can't pop by casually in the morning anymore.
While we're on spokes, let me reply to some comments.
Someone mentioned that the real Starbright (the one magnets attract) is as strong as DT,
and it's cheaper too.
But as another commenter noted—and I've confirmed it myself—
the crappy non-magnetic Starbright can get mixed in the same package,
so I'm scared to buy it.
With Hoshi spokes, if we could get stable supply of real Starbright in 14G plain silver only,
it could be an option.
If we could get stable supply, that is.
Hoshi butted spokes have inconsistent non-butted lengths
depending on spoke length (especially aero spokes), so
I'm not a fan.
↑These are Hoshi Aero Starbright II type,
290mm, 276mm, and 256mm from upper right.
I've aligned them not by spoke length but by where the butting begins.
Let me align the 290mm and 276mm at the butting start point and look.
Neck side
Thread side
The "butted section length" is the same.
With Sapim and others,
the spec is "both end plain sections are the same length, everything else is butted,"
but Hoshi seems to use a method where the butted section length varies by pattern
and they change which pattern based on spoke length.
Now adding 256mm and aligning at the neck position.
The 256mm has a shorter butted section.
And this excessively long plain section on the neck side looks
ugly to me, what do you think?
These are all real Starbright, so
the spoke strength is no problem—it's actually excellent.
If you could, try making this one more time.
Next, about a comment asking what I think of Pillar spokes.
As a spoke spec that doesn't overlap with DT or Sapim,
there are square cross-section aero spokes that fit through round holes,
with slightly higher spoke weight than the elliptical CX-RAY,
and they'd be good for building 20H or fewer front wheels.
But we don't get stable supply, so we haven't adopted them.
They're commonly used in so-called Chinese carbon wheels,
but repair work on bent spokes from those wheels is a hassle.
Also, just a subjective impression, but for J-bend spokes,
spoke breakage seems to happen more often with these than with Sapim or DT.
I can no longer stop by to pick them up on my way to work on commuter bikes.
Since the product lineup and order quantities have also changed,
I'll write about those details.
The new distributor's standard stock items have been reduced to
Champion and Competition only.
To be specific:
14G Champion in silver and black,
15G Champion in silver,
14G Competition in silver and black.
The 15G Champion in black and 15G Competition,
Revolution, and Aero Lite have been discontinued.
That said, our shop rarely uses Revolution anyway, so
we're not particularly troubled by this.
You can use it without issues on old low-profile 32H or 36H rims,
but even then we usually build with CX-RAY instead.
With Aero Lite, even at the previous distributor
we only had silver and black in 4 lengths: 300, 290, 280, and 270mm.
The idea was to cut intermediate lengths with a spoke cutter,
so you could get any length from around 299mm down to 260mm on demand.
However, since CX-RAY has the same spoke gauge and cross-section profile,
and Aero Lite is more expensive with unstable supply,
we've basically never used it. So again, no real problem.
↑This is the previous distributor's order unit.
Sales were by the box, with the standard being 100 spokes per box with brass nipples included.
However, black Competition came in 72 spokes per box with black spokes but silver aluminum nipples.
Not shown on the chart, but Revolution came in 72 spokes per box for both silver and black,
both with silver aluminum nipples included.
So black Competition had the same quantity and nipple specs as Revolution.
By the way, titanium spokes—Titanium MMC (Metal Matrix Composite)—
came in boxes of just 12 spokes each.
↑I've added notes about the current distributor's order units.
The changes are: 15G Competition no longer in standard stock, black Competition nipples changed to black aluminum,
and instead of 100-spoke boxes, we now handle 10-spoke or 4-spoke units.
However, Champion 315mm is available in 500, 100, or 72-spoke units only.
Since plain spokes can be cut to any length with a spoke cutter,
buying just 315mm Champion is sufficient.
With 10-spoke or 4-spoke order units,
the unit price for 10-spoke is slightly cheaper, but barely.
By combining these, you can order exactly what you need—
for example, for a 32H front wheel: 10+10+4+4+4,
or for just 12 spokes in a half-Competition 24H wheel: 4+4+4.
From now on, any shop that says
"DT spokes can only be ordered in 100-spoke units, so even if we only use 32 spokes we have to buy 100"
is lying, so be careful.
Even otherwise, making customers buy unnecessary spokes is pretty underhanded.
If you're building wheels constantly, you'll occasionally get a dud spoke
(←make up your mind).
So ordering exactly the number you need is actually risky business.
I'm too scared to do it.
Right away, I bought silver and black Champion 315mm in 100-spoke boxes.
With the previous distributor, spokes in boxes came with nipples included,
but it seems the current distributor doesn't include them.
With the previous distributor, the longest black Champion in standard stock was oddly 266mm.
So for half-Competition builds, I'd been using Sapim black Leader spokes,
but I'm planning to switch to black half-Champion from now on.
For 14G black plain spokes specifically, Wheelsmith's SS14 (max 310mm, 50 spokes per box)
is also a pretty good spoke.
Except for bulk-order 315mm Champion,
the current distributor carries Champion/Competition in 255–303mm (1mm increments).
As I mentioned in an earlier post,
the previous distributor's shortest silver Competition was 258mm.
The previous distributor's longest Champion/Competition length was 306mm.
Competition 306mm was oddly never in stock,
so I'd usually order 305mm instead.
As an example of when 303mm isn't long enough:
For track wheels using an Araya 16B Gold rim
built 8-spoke in 36H, there's a
standard-specification 15G-based butted spoke at 305mm by Hoshi.
This is effectively the longest length needed for 700C rims,
but building ultra-low-profile 36H rims 8-spoke wouldn't happen very often, probably.
Since Competition no longer comes in 100-spoke units,
when you want 100 or 200 spokes, you'd order 10 or 20 bags of 10-spoke packs.
This is extremely annoying.
Taking them out of the bags and bundling them is tedious.
↑These are the 4 nipples that come with black Competition 4-spoke packs.
I wonder if there's any point in dividing things this finely
(okay, so it helps shops like us that only build a few wheels at a time).
Since Competition no longer comes in 100 or 72-spoke boxes,
I'll no longer have the chance to get these boxes.
You could fit 200 Competition spokes in a box (though 14G Champion would be tight),
but I've been throwing the extra boxes away.
This box gets worn over time,
so whenever I did bulk Competition orders, I'd occasionally replace the box.
This is the spoke case we use at our shop for CX-RAY.
The drawers have dividers, but
if spokes differing by 1mm or 2mm are in the same drawer,
things get messy if they somehow mix up.
For instance, spokes in 1mm increments of the same type,
I arrange them in an order like this.
I split same-length spokes of different colors left and right.
By the way, these spoke cases are
expensive to buy (and might even be discontinued)
but my mentor gave me one years ago, and I'm grateful for it.
There are spare drawers, but I might need to reserve 3 for Competition.
I use 303, 285, and 278mm most often,
plus 255mm for the shortest length—that's 4 drawers needed.
I can reliably cut 278mm from 285mm anyway,
but I still order 278mm separately because I use it so much.
Hmm, I'm torn.
Next, about nipples.
15G now only comes in brass and silver aluminum,
and colored nipples have been discontinued.
Since I rarely use 15G-based spokes
(just occasional 15G plain on small-wheel bikes),
this doesn't bother me much either.
If I really had to, I'd use Sapim nipples.
It's been about 4 years since I last saw
the "deep red" (top image) make a comeback.
DT's 100-piece nipple boxes can hold 200 pieces if you compress them.
So when buying aluminum nipples, I compress the boxes so the count is halved.
The light red (bottom image) is not old stock from our shop—
it's from this new shipment. In other words, deep red and light red are mixed in the same period.
We make sure these two colors (officially the same color according to the maker) don't mix on one wheel,
but whether the light red disappears or not is unclear.
As for DT spoke and nipple prices,
they went up slightly with the distributor change.
Our shop's prices for spokes and silver aluminum nipples are unchanged,
but we're raising the price on colored aluminum nipples.
Currently 40 yen per piece; from August 2018 onwards, 50 yen per piece.
Already-ordered wheel builds will be done at 40 yen per piece.
We apologize for any inconvenience.
By the way, the current distributor's tax-included list price is 61.5 yen per piece.
For rims, freebody, through-axle end parts,
through-axles and such,
the current distributor has better standard stock.
While we're on spokes, let me reply to some comments.
Someone mentioned that the real Starbright (the one magnets attract) is as strong as DT,
and it's cheaper too.
But as another commenter noted—and I've confirmed it myself—
the crappy non-magnetic Starbright can get mixed in the same package,
so I'm scared to buy it.
With Hoshi spokes, if we could get stable supply of real Starbright in 14G plain silver only,
it could be an option.
If we could get stable supply, that is.
Hoshi butted spokes have inconsistent non-butted lengths
depending on spoke length (especially aero spokes), so
I'm not a fan.
↑These are Hoshi Aero Starbright II type,
290mm, 276mm, and 256mm from upper right.
I've aligned them not by spoke length but by where the butting begins.
Let me align the 290mm and 276mm at the butting start point and look.
Neck side
Thread side
The "butted section length" is the same.
With Sapim and others,
the spec is "both end plain sections are the same length, everything else is butted,"
but Hoshi seems to use a method where the butted section length varies by pattern
and they change which pattern based on spoke length.
Now adding 256mm and aligning at the neck position.
The 256mm has a shorter butted section.
And this excessively long plain section on the neck side looks
ugly to me, what do you think?
These are all real Starbright, so
the spoke strength is no problem—it's actually excellent.
Next, about a comment asking what I think of Pillar spokes.
As a spoke spec that doesn't overlap with DT or Sapim,
there are square cross-section aero spokes that fit through round holes,
with slightly higher spoke weight than the elliptical CX-RAY,
and they'd be good for building 20H or fewer front wheels.
But we don't get stable supply, so we haven't adopted them.
They're commonly used in so-called Chinese carbon wheels,
but repair work on bent spokes from those wheels is a hassle.
Also, just a subjective impression, but for J-bend spokes,
spoke breakage seems to happen more often with these than with Sapim or DT.