Another day with wheels (etc.).
This is a continuation from yesterday.
I disassembled the C36 rear wheel and will build the front wheel using the former C50 front hub.
This rear wheel is built 2:1, and the non-freewheel side uses a pseudo-radial 0-degree build with the spoke head phasing adjusted from even to dense spacing.
The C36 front wheel has the same spoke length on both sides at 286mm, and the freewheel side of the rear wheel is also 286mm.
So of the 16 spokes on the freewheel side, 12 of them can be reused as a full side from the original front hub.
The spoke weight ratio of the C36 and C50 on the WH-R8170 is approximately 71% (→here), so with
left side CX Sprint / right side R8170 spokes we get 78:71%,
and left side R8170 spoke / right side CX-RAY we get 71:65%—
creating an unequal diameter build on each side.
Without insisting on reusing spokes, there's also the option of
left side CX Sprint / right side CX-RAY
for 78:65%.
This time I decided to rebuild with
left side R8170 spoke / right side CX-RAY at 71:65%.
In the image above, I've marked the eight non-freewheel spokes that are too short to reuse with tape.
The freewheel side flange is a "through" type,
while the non-freewheel side flange is a "hooked" type.
I loosened all the nipples 12 turns each.
There's no strong logic behind the number 12, but when you loosen nipples to the point where only one thread is engaged,
they can sometimes come off unexpectedly, so I just made sure 2-3 threads were still engaged.
From there, I completely loosened the freewheel side spokes and removed them from the hub flange.
To prevent nipples from falling inside the rim,
I applied a few threads to the nipples without threading them through the hub on all spokes.
↑Like this
For the remaining non-freewheel side with the hooked-type flange,
from this state where tension is sufficiently loosened,
I can remove the rear hub without rotating the nipples.
Here, I noticed something important.
As I've mentioned before, the 24H rim with the 2:1 build for the rear wheel has no visibly obvious left-right hole offset,
but I confirmed that the rim holes do have directionality in the front-to-back direction!
So the front and rear rims really are different pieces.
↑This is the view of the hanging rear wheel from the right side (freewheel side).
Blue is the freewheel side spoke, red is the non-freewheel side spoke.
I accidentally drew the non-freewheel side spokes in a normal radial build instead of with Optibald phase spacing, but please ignore that.
Here, focus on the spoke four positions clockwise from the valve hole.
The spoke in the direction of the porcupine.
I added arrows along the spoke path.
From here, keeping only the arrows and erasing the spokes,
I draw in spokes for an equal-number-per-side build, treated as a "proper" rim.
In this post-rebuild state,
the rim hole four positions clockwise from the valve hole
would have a spoke in the anti-porcupine direction.
↑This is the actual rim hole four positions clockwise from the valve hole, and when I tilt the nipple-attached spoke as far as possible in the anti-porcupine direction, this is the limit angle.
But in the porcupine direction, I can tilt it this far.
Since it's already been built into a wheel once,
it's possible the rim hole edges got roughed up from the nipple rubbing against them and became damaged,
but I don't think that alone accounts for such a big difference.
In cases like this where you can only get a combination of the C36 rear wheel and C50 front wheel,
or when you bought a C36 or C50 front and rear set but the rear wheel was so bad you need to fix it,
you have no choice but to rebuild the 2:1 rear wheel into an equal-number-per-side rear wheel.
But if you're planning to rebuild from the start,
it's preferable to have them get a front wheel instead.
Once I removed the rear hub from the spoke-attached rim,
transferring 286mm spokes to the left flange of the front hub treating it as a proper rim
within the reusable range gives me these 8 spokes.
For the right side I'll use 286mm black CX-RAY straight spokes,
and transferring the original spokes as much as possible gives me this arrangement.
The pattern is the same as the left side.
People who can diagram this spoke pattern before actually doing it,
or who can instantly visualize the spoke diagram for a wheel in this state,
have a sense for wheel building beyond just technical knowledge.
I can instantly diagram both, but that's because I already know them and have memorized them—
I'm not confident I could immediately sketch it from imagination on first sight.
I changed the 12 spokes on the right side to CX-RAY.
So at this point, I've pulled 8 freewheel-side spokes and 4 non-freewheel-side spokes from the original rear hub, for 12 total.
Of these, I exchange the 4 original freewheel-side spokes with
the 4 original non-freewheel-side spokes from the left side, and the temporary build is complete.
So I ended up with 4 freewheel-side and 8 non-freewheel-side spokes left over.
Of these, the 4 freewheel-side spokes can be used as spare spokes for the rebuilt left side.
As I mentioned yesterday,
unless it's a front hub with obvious high-low flanges,
it's impossible for the left and right spoke lengths to be the same, even with just disc rotor bracket runout.
There should be at least a 1mm difference.
The fact that the stock specs are 286mm on both sides means
either 285/286mm or 286/287mm on left/right would be more appropriate.
To give the conclusion: 285/286mm is more appropriate.
In the temporary build, I aligned the spokes so the threads were hidden at the nipple end face,
but the left side (disc rotor bracket side) was so slack with spokes initially
I wondered if the wheel would actually build at all.
The WH-R8170 spokes have square-shaped swaging for tool grip,
and even so, it looks like I could cut about 6mm.
You'd think I should just cut 1mm from the left side,
but this time I built it as-is.
After all, the stock specs are 286mm on the left side,
so there shouldn't be any problem.
Next time, I might make the left side spokes 285mm.
Well, there will be a "next time".
It's built.
With the right side being black CX-RAY straight spokes, and the lacing—
which I'll do later—the left side, which the stock specs don't lace on the final cross, now has the final cross laced in.
Like the rear wheel, I went through a somewhat complicated procedure for swapping the hub and spokes because,
like the rear wheel, I'm reusing the nipples, so
I did the rebuild without removing the tubeless tape—
a method that doesn't require replacement.
This method has two drawbacks.
The first is that it takes time.
If the tubeless tape could be removed (unreusable) and the unwanted spokes (the original non-freewheel side 8 spokes in this case) could be cut after tension is released, it would go much faster.
Either way, labor is the same, so it doesn't matter to the customer.
The second drawback is that you don't get the chance to measure the weight of just the rim.
This is a continuation from yesterday.
I disassembled the C36 rear wheel and will build the front wheel using the former C50 front hub.
This rear wheel is built 2:1, and the non-freewheel side uses a pseudo-radial 0-degree build with the spoke head phasing adjusted from even to dense spacing.
The C36 front wheel has the same spoke length on both sides at 286mm, and the freewheel side of the rear wheel is also 286mm.
So of the 16 spokes on the freewheel side, 12 of them can be reused as a full side from the original front hub.
The spoke weight ratio of the C36 and C50 on the WH-R8170 is approximately 71% (→here), so with
left side CX Sprint / right side R8170 spokes we get 78:71%,
and left side R8170 spoke / right side CX-RAY we get 71:65%—
creating an unequal diameter build on each side.
Without insisting on reusing spokes, there's also the option of
left side CX Sprint / right side CX-RAY
for 78:65%.
This time I decided to rebuild with
left side R8170 spoke / right side CX-RAY at 71:65%.
In the image above, I've marked the eight non-freewheel spokes that are too short to reuse with tape.
The freewheel side flange is a "through" type,
while the non-freewheel side flange is a "hooked" type.
I loosened all the nipples 12 turns each.
There's no strong logic behind the number 12, but when you loosen nipples to the point where only one thread is engaged,
they can sometimes come off unexpectedly, so I just made sure 2-3 threads were still engaged.
From there, I completely loosened the freewheel side spokes and removed them from the hub flange.
To prevent nipples from falling inside the rim,
I applied a few threads to the nipples without threading them through the hub on all spokes.
↑Like this
For the remaining non-freewheel side with the hooked-type flange,
from this state where tension is sufficiently loosened,
I can remove the rear hub without rotating the nipples.
Here, I noticed something important.
As I've mentioned before, the 24H rim with the 2:1 build for the rear wheel has no visibly obvious left-right hole offset,
but I confirmed that the rim holes do have directionality in the front-to-back direction!
So the front and rear rims really are different pieces.
↑This is the view of the hanging rear wheel from the right side (freewheel side).
Blue is the freewheel side spoke, red is the non-freewheel side spoke.
Here, focus on the spoke four positions clockwise from the valve hole.
The spoke in the direction of the porcupine.
I added arrows along the spoke path.
From here, keeping only the arrows and erasing the spokes,
I draw in spokes for an equal-number-per-side build, treated as a "proper" rim.
In this post-rebuild state,
the rim hole four positions clockwise from the valve hole
would have a spoke in the anti-porcupine direction.
↑This is the actual rim hole four positions clockwise from the valve hole, and when I tilt the nipple-attached spoke as far as possible in the anti-porcupine direction, this is the limit angle.
But in the porcupine direction, I can tilt it this far.
Since it's already been built into a wheel once,
it's possible the rim hole edges got roughed up from the nipple rubbing against them and became damaged,
but I don't think that alone accounts for such a big difference.
In cases like this where you can only get a combination of the C36 rear wheel and C50 front wheel,
or when you bought a C36 or C50 front and rear set but the rear wheel was so bad you need to fix it,
you have no choice but to rebuild the 2:1 rear wheel into an equal-number-per-side rear wheel.
But if you're planning to rebuild from the start,
it's preferable to have them get a front wheel instead.
Once I removed the rear hub from the spoke-attached rim,
transferring 286mm spokes to the left flange of the front hub treating it as a proper rim
within the reusable range gives me these 8 spokes.
For the right side I'll use 286mm black CX-RAY straight spokes,
and transferring the original spokes as much as possible gives me this arrangement.
The pattern is the same as the left side.
People who can diagram this spoke pattern before actually doing it,
or who can instantly visualize the spoke diagram for a wheel in this state,
have a sense for wheel building beyond just technical knowledge.
I can instantly diagram both, but that's because I already know them and have memorized them—
I'm not confident I could immediately sketch it from imagination on first sight.
I changed the 12 spokes on the right side to CX-RAY.
So at this point, I've pulled 8 freewheel-side spokes and 4 non-freewheel-side spokes from the original rear hub, for 12 total.
Of these, I exchange the 4 original freewheel-side spokes with
the 4 original non-freewheel-side spokes from the left side, and the temporary build is complete.
So I ended up with 4 freewheel-side and 8 non-freewheel-side spokes left over.
Of these, the 4 freewheel-side spokes can be used as spare spokes for the rebuilt left side.
As I mentioned yesterday,
unless it's a front hub with obvious high-low flanges,
it's impossible for the left and right spoke lengths to be the same, even with just disc rotor bracket runout.
There should be at least a 1mm difference.
The fact that the stock specs are 286mm on both sides means
either 285/286mm or 286/287mm on left/right would be more appropriate.
To give the conclusion: 285/286mm is more appropriate.
In the temporary build, I aligned the spokes so the threads were hidden at the nipple end face,
but the left side (disc rotor bracket side) was so slack with spokes initially
I wondered if the wheel would actually build at all.
The WH-R8170 spokes have square-shaped swaging for tool grip,
and even so, it looks like I could cut about 6mm.
You'd think I should just cut 1mm from the left side,
but this time I built it as-is.
After all, the stock specs are 286mm on the left side,
so there shouldn't be any problem.
Next time, I might make the left side spokes 285mm.
Well, there will be a "next time".
It's built.
With the right side being black CX-RAY straight spokes, and the lacing—
which I'll do later—the left side, which the stock specs don't lace on the final cross, now has the final cross laced in.
Like the rear wheel, I went through a somewhat complicated procedure for swapping the hub and spokes because,
like the rear wheel, I'm reusing the nipples, so
I did the rebuild without removing the tubeless tape—
a method that doesn't require replacement.
This method has two drawbacks.
The first is that it takes time.
If the tubeless tape could be removed (unreusable) and the unwanted spokes (the original non-freewheel side 8 spokes in this case) could be cut after tension is released, it would go much faster.
Either way, labor is the same, so it doesn't matter to the customer.
The second drawback is that you don't get the chance to measure the weight of just the rim.